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Xeogaming Forums - General Chat - Orson Scott Card tears into J.K. Rowling over her recent lawsuit | |
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Rogue
If you're reading this... You are the Resistance











Since: 08-17-04

Since last post: 417 days
Last activity: 226 days
Posted on 05-02-08 12:29 AM Link | Quote
Slashdot posted this hilarious argument Orson Scott Card made against J.K. Rowling, who's in the process of suing Harry Potter Lexicon for what she believes as stealing "descriptions, character details, and plot points" from the HP series, that she feels only she should profit from.

Article on that if you're interested: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20071114-infringus-maximus-rowling-wins-injunction-against-harry-potter-lexicon.html

Orson Scott Card, author of the widely-popular Ender's Game, makes an unbelievably hilarious observation of Ms. Rowling inadvertantly stealing his own plot points.

Article: http://www.linearpublishing.com/RhinoStory.html

Originally posted by Orson Scott Card
J.K. Rowling, Lexicon and Oz
by Orson

April 24, 2008
Can you believe that J.K. Rowling is suing a small publisher because she claims their 10,000-copy edition of The Harry Potter Lexicon, a book about Rowling's hugely successful novel series, is just a "rearrangement" of her own material.

Rowling "feels like her words were stolen," said lawyer Dan Shallman.

Well, heck, I feel like the plot of my novel Ender's Game was stolen by J.K. Rowling.

A young kid growing up in an oppressive family situation suddenly learns that he is one of a special class of children with special abilities, who are to be educated in a remote training facility where student life is dominated by an intense game played by teams flying in midair, at which this kid turns out to be exceptionally talented and a natural leader. He trains other kids in unauthorized extra sessions, which enrages his enemies, who attack him with the intention of killing him; but he is protected by his loyal, brilliant friends and gains strength from the love of some of his family members. He is given special guidance by an older man of legendary accomplishments who previously kept the enemy at bay. He goes on to become the crucial figure in a struggle against an unseen enemy who threatens the whole world.

This paragraph lists only the most prominent similarities between Ender's Game and the Harry Potter series. My book was published in England many years before Rowling began writing about Harry Potter. Rowling was known to be reading widely in speculative fiction during the era after the publication of my book.

I can get on the stand and cry, too, Ms. Rowling, and talk about feeling "personally violated."

The difference between us is that I actually make enough money from Ender's Game to be content, without having to try to punish other people whose creativity might have been inspired by something I wrote.

Mine is not the only work that one can charge Rowling "borrowed" from. Check out this piece from a fan site, pointing out links between Harry Potter and other previous works: http://www.geocities.com/versetrue/rowling.htm. And don't forget the lawsuit by Nancy K. Stouffer, the author of a book entitled The Legend of Rah and the Muggles, whose hero was named "Larry Potter."

At that time, Rowling's lawyers called Stouffer's claim "frivolous."

It's true that we writers borrow words from each other ? but we're supposed to admit it and not pretend we're original when we're not. I took the word ansible from Ursula K. LeGuin, and have always said so. Rowling, however, denies everything.

If Steven Vander Ark, the author of Lexicon, had written fiction that he claimed was original, when it was actually a rearrangement of ideas taken from the Harry Potter books, then she'd have a case.

But Lexicon is intended only as a reference book for people who have already paid for their copies of Rowling's books. Even though the book is not scholarly, it certainly falls within the realm of scholarly comment.

Rowling's hypocrisy is so thick I can hardly breathe: Prior to the publication of each novel, there were books about them that were no more intrusive than Lexicon. I contributed to one of them, and there was no complaint about it from Rowling or her publishers because they knew perfectly well that these fan/scholar ancillary publications were great publicity and actually boosted sales.

But now the Harry Potter series is over, and Rowling claims that her "creative work" is being "decimated."

Of course, she doesn't claim that it's the Lexicon that is harming her "creative work" (who's she borrowing from this time?); it's the lawsuit itself! And since she chose to bring the suit, whose fault is it? If she had left Vander Ark alone to publish his little book and make his little bit of money, she wouldn't be distracted from her next novel.

But no, Rowling claims Vander Ark's book "constitutes wholesale theft of 17 years of my hard work."

Seventeen years? What a crock. Apparently she includes in that total the timeframe in which she was reading ? and borrowing from ? the work of other writers.

On the stand, though, Rowling's chief complaint seems to be that she would do a better job of annotating and encyclopedizing her own series.

So what?

Nothing prevents her from doing exactly that ? annotating and explaining her own novels. Do you think that if there were a Harry Potter Annotated by the Author, Vander Ark's book would interfere with her sales in any way?

This frivolous lawsuit puts at serious risk the entire tradition of commentary on fiction. Any student writing a paper about the Harry Potter books, any scholarly treatise about it, will certainly do everything she's complaining about.

Once you publish fiction, Ms. Rowling, anybody is free to write about it, to comment on it, and to quote liberally from it, as long as the source is cited.

Here's the irony: Vander Ark had the material for this book on his website for years, and Rowling is quoted as saying that when she needed to look up some 'fact" from her earlier books, she would sometimes "sneak into an Internet cafe while out writing and check a fact rather than go into a bookshop and buy a copy of Harry Potter."

In other words, she already had made personal use of Vander Ark's work and found it valuable. Even if it has shortcomings, she found it useful.

That means that Vander Ark created something original and useful ? he added value to the product. If Rowling wants to claim that it interferes with her creativity now, she should have made that complaint back when she was using it ? and giving Vander Ark an award for his website back in 2004.

Now, of course, she regrets "bitterly" having given the award.

You know what I think is going on?

Rowling has nowhere to go and nothing to do now that the Harry Potter series is over. After all her literary borrowing, she shot her wad and she's flailing about trying to come up with something to do that means anything.

Moreover, she is desperate for literary respectability. Even though she made more money than the queen or Oprah Winfrey in some years, she had to see her books pushed off the bestseller lists and consigned to a special "children's book" list. Litterateurs sneer at her work as a kind of subliterature, not really worth discussing.

It makes her insane. The money wasn't enough. She wants to be treated with respect.

At the same time, she's also surrounded by people whose primary function is to suck up to her. No doubt some of them were saying to her, "It's wrong for these other people to be exploiting what you created to make money for themselves."

She let herself be talked into being outraged over a perfectly normal publishing activity, one that she had actually made use of herself during its web incarnation.

Now she is suing somebody who has devoted years to promoting her work and making no money from his efforts ? which actually helped her make some of her bazillions of dollars.

Talent does not excuse Rowling's ingratitude, her vanity, her greed, her bullying of the little guy, and her pathetic claims of emotional distress.

I fully expect that the outcome of this lawsuit will be:

1. Publication of Lexicon will go on without any problem or prejudice, because it clearly falls within the copyright law's provision for scholarly work, commentary and review.

2. Rowling will be forced to pay Steven Vander Ark's legal fees, since her suit was utterly without merit from the start.

3. People who hear about this suit will have a sour taste in their mouth about Rowling from now on. Her Cinderella story once charmed us. Her greedy evil-witch behavior now disgusts us. And her next book will be perceived as the work of that evil witch.

It's like her stupid, self-serving claim that Dumbledore was gay. She wants credit for being very up-to-date and politically correct ? but she didn't have the guts to put that supposed "fact" into the actual novels, knowing that it might hurt sales.

What a pretentious, puffed-up coward. When I have a gay character in my fiction, I say so right in the book. I don’t wait until after it has had all its initial sales to mention it.

Rowling has now shown herself to lack a brain, a heart and courage. Clearly, she needs to visit Oz.


I bolded a part of the above to call attention to the observation.

TL;DR?

Pretty much Harry Potter is Ender's Game but with witches and wizards in place of the space marine training facility (or whatever it was that all the children learning to fight buggers were kept).
Lord Vulkas Mormonus

Vile
High Xeodent of Xeomerica.








Since: 10-29-04
From: North Carolina, United States. World, Sol System, milky way

Since last post: 191 days
Last activity: 174 days
Posted on 05-02-08 11:03 AM Link | Quote
You can find a weekly article by him here, www.hatrack.com. You can find his articles on the left side.

But anyway, it's things like this that make me think Orson Scott Card is awesome.

Trivia: I used to go to the same church as Scott Card, and saw him every sunday. My dad also worked as his lawyer at one point.
Rogue
If you're reading this... You are the Resistance











Since: 08-17-04

Since last post: 417 days
Last activity: 226 days
Posted on 05-02-08 04:54 PM Link | Quote
I don't care what arguments people have tried to make against Orson Scott Card (you get the occasional people who interject that he's racist or that he started centering his writing on his religion).

I loved Ender's Game and this is the funniest thing I've read all week.

I used to adore J.K. Rowling, even as Orson put it about her "Cinderella story" charming us. It seemed like when Goblet of Fire came out, she made this weird shift toward merchandising (this was also around the time the first movie was announced).

I wonder if she'll sue Cliff's Notes in a few years.
Cteno

Super Shotgun
Moderator








Since: 01-11-05

Since last post: 1623 days
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Posted on 05-04-08 05:56 AM Link | Quote
It really saddens me when artists (musicians, painters, authors) put their talent in the back seat and sell out. When (if) I make it big as one myself, I will stay away from that kind of crap. If I do make some money on the side, that's great, but I'm not going to be out to suck every dollar from everybody and play the victim. That's just not right.

tl;dr
I hate the industry.
Ryan

Ptooie
Is back!









Since: 10-01-04
From: Stafford, UK

Since last post: 4427 days
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Posted on 05-04-08 07:23 AM Link | Quote
The little respect I had for J. K. Rowling has been destroyed.
Xeios

You WANKER!








Since: 08-16-04

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Posted on 05-05-08 03:46 AM Link | Quote
That's why I liked Harry Potter.

I hadn't thought of it, but the book I read many(many), years before had almost the exact same plot sequence. Interesting, kind of makes me wonder, "Why the hell was her book 7 parts long and just as good as the book that was only 1" (If you don't count the other's in the series, that were not summed up in the explanation of plot above)

Maybe because she just bullshat for thousands of pages and made a million useless characters she intended to kill later for no reason other than to "hook" readers.

In other words, J. K. Rowling best not write any more blatant fiction ripoffs, though I doubt she'd have the talent to come up with an idea of her own.
Lord Vulkas Mormonus

Vile
High Xeodent of Xeomerica.








Since: 10-29-04
From: North Carolina, United States. World, Sol System, milky way

Since last post: 191 days
Last activity: 174 days
Posted on 05-05-08 09:22 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Rogue
(you get the occasional people who interject that...he started centering his writing on his religion).


That's actually far more true than you know. Have you read the Homecoming series? It's a pretty good sci-fi series, but it's also like a science fiction version of the first two books in the Book of Mormon.

And I mean REALLY similiar, right down to people's names(not identical, but similiar, like he used Nafai instead of Nephi.)

It's still an awesome series though, highly reccomended.
Rogue
If you're reading this... You are the Resistance











Since: 08-17-04

Since last post: 417 days
Last activity: 226 days
Posted on 05-05-08 11:32 AM Link | Quote
Yeah, I know he did that. I honestly do not have a problem with it, but when Anne Rice denounced her vampire books and started writing about Catholicism, people started down-casting OSC as well.

On other boards I used to visit people would attack him on that point ALONE saying they used to respect him, but now they hate his work for his concentrating on Mormonism.

People are very stupid creatures.

Take Tom Cruise's Scientology-conversion for example. Suddenly any enjoyable movies he's ever made are looked down upon for his recent unfavorable appearances in the media.

Just because Tom Cruise has chosen a faith others oppose, and to be honest he has said some pretty out-there things, I'm not going to start hating Interview with the Vampire. Same with Anne Rice, regarding the same title respectively (though my reasons for disliking her these days are numerous in nature and none of it having to do with her sudden jump to writing about Christ so much as her absolute disregard for her ever-loving fanbase. She's biting the hand that feeds her, I tell you).

It seems like whenever religion comes into play with a celebrity, suddenly they become a target for ridicule (I mean how many people started despising Mel Gibson for his making The Passion of the Christ alone, and before his anti-semitic comments when he got pulled over?). As though by announcing to the world that they want to concentrate on something they feel spiritually strong about, their work is suddenly garbage.

One has to separate the artist from their piece. That's all I'm saying.

It's really ignorant to do otherwise.


(Last edited by Rogue on 05-05-08 12:05 PM)
Cairoi
This isn't about you and your loud mouth,
This is about me and my fucking beard.








Since: 08-29-04
From: PA

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Posted on 05-05-08 06:13 PM Link | Quote
Well yeah, this sucks, but I still think J.K. Rowling is a talented writer. She made books popular with people that books normally AREN'T popular with. That's good work on any account.
Lord Vulkas Mormonus

Vile
High Xeodent of Xeomerica.








Since: 10-29-04
From: North Carolina, United States. World, Sol System, milky way

Since last post: 191 days
Last activity: 174 days
Posted on 05-05-08 08:48 PM Link | Quote
I've actually discussed her writing abilities a lot with people, Cairoi, and I came to a firm conclusion...

She's a decent writer, and that helps, but that's not what makes her books good and popular. But, she's not a great writer.

The thing that makes her good is her storywriting abilities, and her ability to develop characters. Tolkien was a great writer, Homer was a great writer, and a lot of other people were great writers. However, where Tolkien couldn't attact as huge of an audience with his great writing, Rowling did it with her good storytelling.

I'm not insulting Tolkien, by the way, he's awesome, and undoubtedly one of my favorite authors(though I haven't enjoyed much of his beyond the Hobbit and LOTR.)

I just think that Rowling did better with her characters and storytelling, even though I was disappointed when she killed off about ten different characters in the last 200 pages of the 7th book, slightly annoying.
Rogue
If you're reading this... You are the Resistance











Since: 08-17-04

Since last post: 417 days
Last activity: 226 days
Posted on 05-06-08 10:38 AM Link | Quote
If you look through her first book, you might notice how many historical and fantasy references she makes and hides in the details. Enough to make a child curious and maybe even look up who many of the sorcerers and witches she mentions were.

When it comes right down to it, HP is meant for kids, and works well as a stepping stone to other books. She just happened to start making the story a bit more adult-like as she realized there were many more people over the age of 10 picking these up (as well as HP's becoming more of a teenager with teenage-drama).

And taking them way too seriously, I might add...





Seriously? The bottom one isn't even cut right or in the right place.

It kills me when people like that say Trekkers/Trekkies are geeks and HP fans are cool.
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