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01-28-23 02:55 AM
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Xeogaming Forums - General Chat - Bigots and Ignorance. | |
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Pockets

Werewolf
pockets








Since: 10-20-04

Since last post: 4427 days
Last activity: 3943 days
Posted on 05-02-07 03:28 AM Link | Quote
So at my work I am being required to buy and wear a new belt because the one
that I have has a pentagram on it. Apparently other employees have complained
about my wearing a "Satanic" symbol.

Apparently it offends someone. No one gives a shit that one of the other employees
wears a big ass cross which offends the fuck out of me. He's got a torture device
around his neck and I make no comment but someone has a problem with me
being proud of my religion. Personally I feel that's fucked up, insulting and highly
discriminatory.

Thoughts?
Elara

Divine Mamkute
Dark Elf Goddess
Chaos Imp
Penguins Fan

Ms. Invisable








Since: 08-15-04
From: Ferelden

Since last post: 115 days
Last activity: 115 days
Posted on 05-02-07 04:02 AM Link | Quote
Point out that other people are wearing crosses or other symbols of faith and that to say that you cannot wear a pentacle is religious discrimination, which is illegal under federal law. Threat of a lawsuit usually makes them calm the hell down. Also, to the ignorant coworkers, explain what it means. But yes... mainly, by pointing out that the pentacle is a federally recognized religious symbol should make them back off.
Pockets

Werewolf
pockets








Since: 10-20-04

Since last post: 4427 days
Last activity: 3943 days
Posted on 05-02-07 09:39 AM Link | Quote
Won't work. It's a small family owned company. They'll just fire me and say they
were unhappy with job performance or something so there's no legal way I can
get at them. So then I'm out of a job and pissed off even more.

They don't say that I can't wear one, it just can't be visible. So my pentagram
around my neck I have to keep tucked into my shirt at all times. It just annoys me
that they'd have the balls to tell me I can't wear my religious symbol.

Willie, the guy that has that big ol cross. He comes into work at twelve every day,
leaves whenever he wants. I do most of his job, and he get's payed more than
anyone in the company. Reason? He's been best friends with the owner of the
company since they were in Kindergarten.
Katana

Dark Wizard
\"She said tonight...come on come on collide...see what I fire feels like..I bet its just like heaven.\"








Since: 08-15-04
From: Philadelphia, P.A.

Since last post: 891 days
Last activity: 708 days
Posted on 05-02-07 12:14 PM Link | Quote
That's really...infuriating, to say the least. What pisses me off more is that there are people out there that make a good thing seem like a bad thing. Like the Muslims after 911...they are being discriminated against because a few radicals are doing bad things under a name of something that is actually a very peaceful and loving thing.

Same with all other religion. I'm sorry, but I accept all beliefs. I don't know all, and I am not claiming to, but everything that I do know...all religion have the same core values...to be good people and stuff like that.

But like the title says...it's all ignorance. A lot of it seems to be coming from the younger generation of Catholics and other various Christian denominations. Which I don't understand why. I was raised in the Catholic Chruch. Why do I feel so open minded? Because my family, teachers, and religious men and women of my Church have taught me those values. All my life I grew up with nuns and priests accepting everything and being intelligent about things...taking the time to understand other religions so that they can accept them better, while staying true to their own. As far as I know, the older (but not too old) generation was a bit more accepting of things, it was mostly the people in power who didn't accept things and they're the ones who matter, sadly enough.

So to my suprise, upon entering high school, I saw stuff like you're going through, Pockets. I was honestly caught off guard by it. I'm used to seeing it now, but it's still so frustrating. People don't need to convert. There's no point to religion if you don't stay true to your beliefs. I just wish they would take the time to learn and TRY to understand.
kyle s kenedy

Armorknight








Since: 01-14-06
From: petaluma california

Since last post: 5741 days
Last activity: 5581 days
Posted on 05-02-07 12:20 PM Link | Quote
i am christian and i dont give a shit if it was my company you could where whatever religous symbol you wish as long as i didnt effect your or your co-workers effeciveness. also while your religon is recognized by the goverment people still look down on your religon so if you work with people i could see how your boss would want to not send of the wrong signals its fucked you but it is a socital view not my own.
z33r0

Octorok








Since: 04-07-06

Since last post: 4744 days
Last activity: 4732 days
Posted on 05-02-07 01:50 PM Link | Quote
Oh my god that would frustrate the fuck out of me.

I don't get that whole illegal to make your employees cover up their religion thing. Even if they could prove they were being discriminated against and win their case thinger, the boss would probably hold a grudge or something and use little small things to get at them. Give them all the shitty jobs, make their hours longer etc. Employers have all sorts of ways in which they can screw their employees.

If you're getting a double standard in uniform and being paid less than you should while someone else is paid more than they should be, what about a new job?
Or just looking around at others, it hardly makes sense to just straight up quit your job, then you've stuck it to the man, but you're poor... or in debt. Neither of which is any fun.

At any rate, if you're not getting the credit or respect you deserve at work he needs to change or you need to leave. Ideally a job is enjoyable, it isn't always but it should never interfere with your identity. And if it ever does it should interfere with Everyone’s, letting that one guy wear a cross is bullshit.

I'm kind of a pessimist but belief is hard to change and I don't think simply explaining the pentagram to the people who are offended by it will work. Not because they wont understand but because they may have other ideas. X-tianity is more accepted because it is better known and is incorporated right into a lot of western society. The masses are asses but the masses also decide what's acceptable. Can't wear a pentagram at work but various celebrities can have their naughty bits on the covers of magazines. It's sort of like being a kid again, and the other kids are picking on you. If you told the adults the other kids would get in trouble, but then they'd alienate you and pick on you even more as soon as the adults weren't looking.
NUCKLEARKNIGHT

Marco








Since: 12-17-04
From: Petaluma, California

Since last post: 5247 days
Last activity: 4840 days
Posted on 05-02-07 02:16 PM Link | Quote
Well if it's a privately owned business than you really don't have much choice. And as z33r0 said explaining it probably won't change their minds or make them understand. I think that you can either suck it up and continue with the job, tell him you opinion on the situation, or quit. What do you do? Is it possible that he thought that you wearing a pentagram might drive away business because he thinks that other people have the same views has him or his co-workers?
Lord Vulkas Mormonus

Vile
High Xeodent of Xeomerica.








Since: 10-29-04
From: North Carolina, United States. World, Sol System, milky way

Since last post: 1858 days
Last activity: 939 days
Posted on 05-02-07 03:11 PM Link | Quote
I know you all will hate me, but from a business prespective, I agree with the owners.

First off, in todays society, a pentagram is associated with satanism. And, as a lot of America is catholic, shouting out things about satanism isn't the way to make a good first impression.

Think about it, you go into a store, and some guy is wearing the nazi symbol on his shirt, and seems completely serious about it. Either you would laugh at the guy, or you would hate him. From a business sense, the pentagram is the same way, though to a lesser degree.

On the other hand, as most of America is christian, they see a guy wearing a cross, and think, "Oh, he's a good and honest christian man."

So yeah, it might seem a bit unfair, but from a business sense, it's a good idea to not let you wear it.
geeogree

Ninji








Since: 10-19-04

Since last post: 4511 days
Last activity: 363 days
Posted on 05-02-07 03:24 PM Link | Quote
well, as much as it's annoying that you can't.... it's just a belt. Get over it.

buy a new belt and wear your other belt when you're not working. I really don't think it's worth the trouble of arguing with your boss.
Bitmap

#1 Enhancement Shaman US Ravenholdt








Since: 09-05-04
From: His Laughin' Place

Since last post: 3893 days
Last activity: 3886 days
Posted on 05-02-07 05:29 PM Link | Quote
I agree with Vulkar, but my deepest sympathy to the Origional Poster.

In Disney, you are not allowed to wear anything symbolic. I had to tell someone to go home because they wore a Cross on their Neck. I told him I know its unfair, Im a christan too, but you have to wear that stuff on YOUR time. Not the buisness owner's

You are only there for work. So I know it may annoy you, but I think you should stick this one out and bite the bullet.

Or find another job that dosent care about what symbol you represent.

Siobhan.

Red Paragoomba








Since: 02-15-07
From: Boston

Since last post: 5599 days
Last activity: 4639 days
Posted on 05-02-07 05:52 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Vulkar
I know you all will hate me, but from a business prespective, I agree with the owners.

First off, in todays society, a pentagram is associated with satanism. And, as a lot of America is catholic, shouting out things about satanism isn't the way to make a good first impression.

Think about it, you go into a store, and some guy is wearing the nazi symbol on his shirt, and seems completely serious about it. Either you would laugh at the guy, or you would hate him. From a business sense, the pentagram is the same way, though to a lesser degree.

On the other hand, as most of America is christian, they see a guy wearing a cross, and think, "Oh, he's a good and honest christian man."

So yeah, it might seem a bit unfair, but from a business sense, it's a good idea to not let you wear it.


I think I agree with you.

And, as much as it sucks, it makes sense. I'm a satanist and I have a small, inverted pentagram necklace. I live in a very catholic neighborhood, and three times when I've worn it around, (not even at my job), I've been harassed. Okay, I'm a girl, a teen, and it's not like I'm macho, and I've been harassed by adult guys being aggressive towards me just for wearing the pentagram. I don't feel the need to display my beliefs with a symbol, but I like the necklace. However, if it will interfere with my safety or financial gain, I don't mind not wearing it. It makes sense. You're more likely to get shit from customers and such if you wear it at work, and it's like, why put yourself through that? It's not your fault that people are ignorant, and you don't have to be some sort of religious martyr, so don't even make a big deal of it.
Leon D. Sagara

Zombie Tarma
HELLO!!!!! ^_^








Since: 08-18-04
From: To Hell and Back

Since last post: 4643 days
Last activity: 4124 days
Posted on 05-02-07 06:54 PM Link | Quote
I also agree with Vulkar.

It deffinetly sucks don't get me wrong. I'm agnostic, so i understand what its like for people to look down on you cuz you don't believe the same thing. The company doesnt want to loose business over it. Business = money, money = paycheck.

But it blows regardless dood
Elara

Divine Mamkute
Dark Elf Goddess
Chaos Imp
Penguins Fan

Ms. Invisable








Since: 08-15-04
From: Ferelden

Since last post: 115 days
Last activity: 115 days
Posted on 05-02-07 07:59 PM Link | Quote
But it is the other employees that are offended, not the customers. And it shouldn't matter that it is a small business or not, it's a Constitutional right... but yes, employers are assholes. However, I'm almost tempted to dare you to say that the one guy's huge cross offends you and see if he makes him stop wearing it since it is only fair.

But yeah... browse around on the job market on your free time. That job sucks anyway if being the boss's best friend gets you more money.
Bitmap

#1 Enhancement Shaman US Ravenholdt








Since: 09-05-04
From: His Laughin' Place

Since last post: 3893 days
Last activity: 3886 days
Posted on 05-02-07 08:20 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Elara
But it is the other employees that are offended, not the customers. And it shouldn't matter that it is a small business or not, it's a Constitutional right.


That is True, but only if the regulations say you are not allowed to be symbolic in any way will this not be allowed.


It may be a right, but you are free to worship any religion, not express it. There are certain areas where you are free to do so, like Smoking, there are areas where you can do that in public.

Like freedom of speech, you can say whatever you want, but only with the right people.
Byte

Dry Bones
Back








Since: 07-30-05
From: Macomb

Since last post: 3951 days
Last activity: 2922 days
Posted on 05-02-07 08:37 PM Link | Quote
What is the point of wearing a religious symbol? Whenever I see some one wearing a pentagram, a cross, or a star of David it's like they're saying "Hey I'm Christian, or Jewish, or Satanic!". I could really care less what religion you are as long as you're a good person.
Cairoi
This isn't about you and your loud mouth,
This is about me and my fucking beard.








Since: 08-29-04
From: PA

Since last post: 4184 days
Last activity: 3808 days
Posted on 05-02-07 09:32 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Nagis
Originally posted by Elara
But it is the other employees that are offended, not the customers. And it shouldn't matter that it is a small business or not, it's a Constitutional right.


That is True, but only if the regulations say you are not allowed to be symbolic in any way will this not be allowed.


It may be a right, but you are free to worship any religion, not express it. There are certain areas where you are free to do so, like Smoking, there are areas where you can do that in public.

Like freedom of speech, you can say whatever you want, but only with the right people.



*COUGH COUGH* Freedom of Expression *COUGH COUGH*
Elara

Divine Mamkute
Dark Elf Goddess
Chaos Imp
Penguins Fan

Ms. Invisable








Since: 08-15-04
From: Ferelden

Since last post: 115 days
Last activity: 115 days
Posted on 05-03-07 03:22 AM Link | Quote
Actually, there are laws in place that say that in the workplace and in schools it is illegal under both federal and state law to discriminate against someone because of race, religion, age, ethnicity, gender, disability, pregnancy, or sexuality. The original form of this law is Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. In most states this affects any business with 15 or more employees, however according to a legal site I was looking at, the state of California these laws apply to any business with five or more employee. The only exemption at all are independent contractors because they are self-employed... or at least that is something I briefly read before the website started acting up.

And actually, if they fired you over your bringing up the religious discrimination then that is grounds for a wrongful termination lawsuit.

Can you tell I've been playing with Google?

Oh, the relavent text of Title VII, note the grounds for undue hardship and how they are not applicaple to the wearing of a religious symbol.

Originally posted by Title VII
*An employer is not required to accommodate an employee's religious beliefs and practices if doing so would impose an undue hardship on the employers' legitimate business interests. An employer can show undue hardship if accommodating an employee's religious practices requires more than ordinary administrative costs, diminishes efficiency in other jobs, infringes on other employees' job rights or benefits, impairs workplace safety, causes co-workers to carry the accommodated employee's share of potentially hazardous or burdensome work, or if the proposed accommodation conflicts with another law or regulation.
* Employers must permit employees to engage in religious expression, unless the religious expression would impose an undue hardship on the employer. Generally, an employer may not place more restrictions on religious expression than on other forms of expression that have a comparable effect on workplace efficiency.
* Employers must take steps to prevent religious harassment of their employees. An employer can reduce the chance that employees will engage unlawful religious harassment by implementing an anti-harassment policy and having an effective procedure for reporting, investigating and correcting harassing conduct.

It is also unlawful to retaliate against an individual for opposing employment practices that discriminate based on religion or for filing a discrimination charge, testifying, or participating in any way in an investigation, proceeding, or litigation under Title VII.



(Last edited by Elara on 05-03-07 06:35 AM)
geeogree

Ninji








Since: 10-19-04

Since last post: 4511 days
Last activity: 363 days
Posted on 05-03-07 03:37 AM Link | Quote
well, I'm of the opinion that while working you aren't "you"... you are an employee and either you choose to comply with the dress code your boss sets out or you find a job that allows you more freedom in what you wear.

I agree that it's not fair that other employees get to wear emblems of their religious beliefs and you don't, but I also feel like you are being just as ignorant as they are. "Torture Symbol".... really? I realize the cross was used as a way to kill people at some point in history, but I fail to understand how it is offensive to you.

If the wearing of crosses actually offended you as much as you seem to say it does then why didn't you say something about it before? Is it just convenient that a you are offended by a "T" after someone was offended by your pentagram?
Elara

Divine Mamkute
Dark Elf Goddess
Chaos Imp
Penguins Fan

Ms. Invisable








Since: 08-15-04
From: Ferelden

Since last post: 115 days
Last activity: 115 days
Posted on 05-03-07 03:42 AM Link | Quote
Again, I notice that anytime that I post some relevant facts about the topic my post is completly ignored.

And the cross comment I made wasn't serious, however such tactics have been used effeciently in the past to prove that one is being discriminated against. It did offend pockets before that though, as he stated in his first post... but generally if you say "the cross offends me" you are ignored and dismissed. And you are always yourself, even while at work, hence why there are laws protecting employees.


(Last edited by Elara on 05-03-07 06:46 AM)
Lord Vulkas Mormonus

Vile
High Xeodent of Xeomerica.








Since: 10-29-04
From: North Carolina, United States. World, Sol System, milky way

Since last post: 1858 days
Last activity: 939 days
Posted on 05-03-07 07:13 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Elara
Actually, there are laws in place that say that in the workplace and in schools it is illegal under both federal and state law to discriminate against someone because of race, religion, age, ethnicity, gender, disability, pregnancy, or sexuality.


...there are?

You know, I could swear that there was this one jewish girl who went to school wearing that thing that covered her hair and got in huge trouble for it...

Anyway, on the relavent topic, I'm going to ask a question about that law...is it in fact moral to restrict a private business? If I ran a business, I think that I'd like to know that I can fire, lay off, or run my business however I choose. It's privately owned, and as such, the government should have absolutely no place in the way I run it.

Any thoughts on that subject?
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