 New link in the top of page "IRC Chat". |
| Register | Login | |||||
 |
Main
| Memberlist
| Active users
| Calendar
| Last Posts
| IRC Chat
| Online users Ranks | FAQ | XPW | Stats | Color Chart | Photo album |
|
| | ||
New link in the top of page "IRC Chat". |
| Register | Login | |||||
|
Main
| Memberlist
| Active users
| Calendar
| Last Posts
| IRC Chat
| Online users Ranks | FAQ | XPW | Stats | Color Chart | Photo album |
|
| | ||
| 0 users currently in Debate Shrine. |
| User | Post |
| Elara Posts: 385/9736 |
... *opens mouth to say something, but can't*
..... Well, I do agree with Tamarin that the population could stand to be dropped a bit... of course that is also the attitude that I took over 9/11 that got me many a weird look. Heh heh. Well, in general I do not think that having an army is bad... look at the Swiss, they have a very good army, but they have been in no wars and invaded no country. They exist to defend Switzerland and that is it. If the rest of the world did the same, perhaps this would not happen anymore and the world could be a better place. Of course, this is ignoring human nature to fuck up and destroy everything, so it's really just a dream. Yes, my opinion of the human race is that low. Now, as to the whole "they didn't know they'd be forced to kill people, or be there that long, etc" statement... if they didn't then they did not pay attention in history did they? All you have to do is look at the Vietnam and Korean wars... in Vietnam our troops were forced to kill people who are potentially innocent, much like they are now, and technically we are still at war with Korea. There was a cease fire declared, that is it, the war never really ended and we still have troops over there on the boarder of North and South Korea that are shot at from time to time. Now keep in mind that the Korean War supposedly ended in the 1950s, yet we are STILL over there... how could you not put 2 and 2 together to figure out that it could happen in Iraq?! I'm just stating my logical thought process based on the information that I learned attending a public high school in an urban area. So you cannot say that I learned that by having access to rich schools or whatever, I did not live a privaledged life, I live in a barrio and I still make this connection. |
| Jin Posts: 118/546 |
People who signed up thinking they were going to protect this country make me laugh a bit.
How is being in Iraq protecting this country? At all.. And wether or not it's worse in Iraq than when Saddam there is kind of a moot point. It sure as hell isn't any BETTER. I'm not claiming that I know what people are thinking when they join the armed forces. I just think their just as much murderers as any other person who takes the life of another. And the people who try to back up the Iraq war by trying to point out that our guys are being attacked by Iraqis is also a moot point. They were hostile towards Americans untill we fucking Invaded their country. I mean I'm not hostile to say Germany right now in the least, but if they Invaded America I know I'd be pissed. Going to war wether people want to accept it or not is NOT about protecting this country. If people want to do that. they should become a cop. |
| Astrophel Posts: 129/2724 |
Alright then. You're worried about Iraqis. Move to Iraq, then. =/
Do you think they were better off with Saddam in charge? Sure, this war was under false assumptions of WMDs, but can you truly say no good at all has come of it? ... then again, I'm of the opinion that the world's overpopulated as it is and could stand to lose a few hundred thousand people. 
Edit: Ah, wait! I just remembered something! What about people who sign up for the armed forces because they want to, oh I dunno... protect the country? You cannot possibly know what goes through the minds of every person who joins the army, so don't arrogantly pretend to. |
| Jin Posts: 114/546 |
I consider signing up for the armed forces going out of one's way to kill innocent people.
Because as I've said. War is never about saving lives. Just taking them. And I am of the opinion that war is NEVER justified. More and more I'm hearing about deaths because of American guards in relation to Iraqi prisoners, it's absolutely disgusting. Nevermind that we shouldn't be in Iraq. Nevermind that the war should've been over by now. Remember what Ghandi said, an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. I will probably never support our 'troops'. Wether or not that makes me an asshole is up to you. I'm more worried about Iraqis. |
| Astrophel Posts: 127/2724 |
Originally posted by Pat MethDon't forget, they won't be in touch with reality either. 
Jin, kindly bring your head down out of the clouds for a moment. Do you think the soldiers are going out of their way to kill innocents - oh, wait. You DID say that you think that. I had hoped I was just tired and seeing things. But, let me take a quote from you for a moment. "Why should I go out of my way to support them when they're going of their way to take the lives of innocent Iraqis?" Now, let's take a look at this. "Why should I go out of my way to support them" - considering the topic, "them" is the soldiers. "when they're" Never changed the subject of "them", so "they" are still the soldiers "going of their way to take the lives of innocent Iraqis?" Now, I KNOW I read that right. This leaves either two potential explanations. Either you seriously fucked up your wording, or your grasp of reality is fractured at best. |
| Pat Meth Posts: 34/153 |
You kind of misread my post? Judging by wht you just wrote, it looks like you didn't read it at all. I'd say read my lips, but you can't see me.
READ THIS No Jin, no. You cannot honestly believe they knew what they were getting themselves into. THey didn't know they would be forced into killing innocent people. They didn't know they would be staying years, literally, after they were supposed to have finished their job. And they didn't know that even though they would be off doing something they didn't necessarily want to do, for reasons unclear to them, for an unacceptably long period of time, there would still be people with their heads up their asses who would hate them. Jin, maybe everyone just isn't as "enlightened" as you or something, but I don't think they knew what they were getting in to. |
| Jin Posts: 113/546 |
Bleh fuck. I'm kind of sleepy and misread your post.
But the very fact is, they KNEW what they were getting into when they signed up to become a puppet of the united states to do the dirty work the higher ups would never dirty their own hands to do. While some find that admirable or noble. I find it degrading to not only them but the people of the united states. |
| Pat Meth Posts: 33/153 |
Whoah...hold up. Are you just making up your own excuses to flame me? where the hell did I say Iraq had anything to do with 9/11? |
| Jin Posts: 112/546 |
If you're ignorant to think Iraq had jack shit to do with 9/11 you deserve to be called ignorant, and probably more.
Atleast Bush would be proud to know people are buying into the propaganda machine. |
| Pat Meth Posts: 32/153 |
You're right Jin- I guess those bomber pilots should've made their own flight and attack plans to get Saddam instead of the ones given to them by higher ups. They wouldn't' have been court martialled or anything! But I guess it doesn't matter if they were court martialled or not-because any punishment is preferable to having to taking a life.
The problem is, "fuck the authority, I'll do whatever I want because I can, I'm a one man revolution" people like you will never really be able to be in touch with people like soldiers who come from underpriveleged families, who in many cases don't have a choice about whether or nott o go to the army, and don't have an oppurtunity to get the expansive, excellent education you do (of course, this means they whine a lot less about their "totally unfair" teachers). No, it is not right to kill people, especially not innocent people. However, they can't dodge the draft, or stage protests, or move to Canada, or any fo that stuff people like you, Jin, take for granted. Come on. Oh, and don't call me ignorant. |
| Jin Posts: 111/546 |
Your ignorance is astounding.
The bombing raids alone in the attempts to kill Saddam and his sons killed hundreds of innocent Iraqis in vein. My thoughts are more with the Iraqis than the Americans. |
| Pat Meth Posts: 30/153 |
Yeah, those innocent Iraqis-you can almost see the naivetee in their faces as they leap out from behind rubble and launch rockets at our troops.
Contrary to what some of the media would have you believe, the majority of people being killed by our troops aren't innocent. Whatever their reason is for attacking our troops, our troops are justified in defending themselves. |
| Jin Posts: 108/546 |
Why should I go out of my way to support them when they're going of their way to take the lives of innocent Iraqis? |
| Pat Meth Posts: 29/153 |
You don't get it Jin-you can be the biggest peacenik in the world and still support our troops. Why? Because they are human beings. You know, for someone who is so interested in equality and acceptance, you are pretty prejudiced against soldiers. |
| Jin Posts: 107/546 |
1) Why isn't Abu Ghraib a valid answer?
2) What about all the other cases of cruelty? 3) What about Guantanamo Bay? 4) What about both invasions of Iraq? 5) What about the recruiting of teenagers at schools and malls? 6) What about from the very beginning of their killing of the ORIGINAL americans? You know. The native americans. Heh, The list really keeps going. I support peace, not our troops. End of story. |
| Pat Meth Posts: 28/153 |
Why are the American Armed forces corrupt and evil (Abu Ghraib is not a valid answer). |
| Jin Posts: 106/546 |
The American armed forces are corrupt and evil.
And to a much lesser degree armed forces in general are corrupt and evil. Not because of themselves but because of the countries they represent. Kind of a catch 22 like communism. *shrug* I know more than a few people in the armed forces including friends and friends of my family. If I ever felt the need to help serve and protect my country, I'll become a cop like my grandfather and late uncle. If and/or when the draft comes back.. I'm moving to another country. |
| Astrophel Posts: 125/2724 |
Yes, Elara, it would be nice if he came home. But to me, that's irrelevent at this time, as he's not home right now nor will he be for a few months.
And yes, there's other ways to support our troops, if people would stop being so damn moronic/lazy and actually try to think of one. We send stuff over to dad every once in a while, maybe every other week or so, and that's usually shared between all the soldiers there where dad is. That's actually supporting them, not just displaying some idiotic ribbon. Jin, what planet do you live on? If you don't see the importance of having an army, then it can't possibly be Earth. It is human nature to desire expansion into other countries. Therefore, if for no other reason, we need one to keep people out of our country. How is that, by itself, "evil and corrupt"? So what do you propose? All countries get rid of their millitary? Please don't tell me you're THAT foolish/stupid/naive. |
| Makura Posts: 176/1555 |
I hate the yellow ribbon. It's stupid. People can't be creative anymore and think of their own ways to support our troops? No we all must conform to a yellow ribbon. |
| Jin Posts: 102/546 |
The "just doing their job" excuse was also used for the Nazis.
But one fact remains. People know exactly what they're signing up for when they join the army. I refuse to support that in any way shape or form. I really don't give a damn who says that makes me an asshole, a prick or an idiot. I'm sure some soldiers are very good people. But that doesn't change a damn thing that they decided to join an evil and corrupt system and to help forward their advances in other countries. War is never a just thing. Because war is NEVER about saving lives. Just viciously taking them for the evil leaders who they devoted their lives to. So pardon me if I don't support these men and women. I'll be busy wearing a shirt that says "support peace, not our troops." |
| This is a long thread. Click here to view it. | |
