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| User | Post |
| avatar of law Posts: 76/486 |
i dont like how "it's satan's fault" additude. i mean, who made satan? "god" did, and if he has flaws, then that's the creator's fault. |
| Arpegius Posts: 72/123 |
Originally posted by Tamarin Calanis I agree, men are flawed and men have created many flawed things, but I have faith and I believe what the Bible says, and it says in summary that flaws are obviously satan's fault (I could go on another path explaining why God made the devil but anyway..) To your second comment, you definitley have to have a bunch of "blind faith" because other than the Bible as proof (even though anyone could wright a book) you have to have a lot of faith to believe what it says. |
| Sasuke_87 Posts: 32/126 |
Elara I think Van Was Trying to point out not teh religious aspect but teh scientific aspect "Science has Failed our World." Nothing with religion jsut teh part on science failing and our logic trying to predict teh future. And Tamaran His Creation was perfect the. NOw before people lash out and say why is there evil and all that and blah issues of world hunger and weapons...Well it's a real simple answer Free Will. We have Free Will to do whatever we please. But yeah i really dont like talking about religion in general so talk to me in AIM or PM me and i will babble from there. |
| Elara Posts: 269/9736 |
Also notice Van that SOAD does not mention religion in that song at all.
As for the Luther thing, I don't think it was half... Calvin took many with him as well years later... maybe between them and Henry VIII it was half. Other than that, yeah I get what you mean. |
| Astrophel Posts: 87/2724 |
Bah. Nothing's perfect. You keep going on and on about God, but yet there are flaws in everything in this world - which, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't He make humans, who in turn made much of the "flawed" things you've mentioned? Then, that would mean His creation wasn't perfect, wouldn't it? So, if He is perfect, why would he make something that wasn't?
But that can't be right, can it? Seems right to me. Maybe I just rely too much on logic, and not enough on blind faith. =/ |
| Van Rhanell Posts: 38/337 |
Draken I appreciate your preaching, but many people here would rather listen to a less direct opinion, so next time tone it down. lots of kids who were raised Christian weren't taught to actually love and depend on God, only to memorize prayers, which makes it seem meaningless. The insufficient way that most kids are taught makes it seem boring and possibly false. If they were ever taught the meaning of their lives and why they need to be devoted to Jesus, more youths would stay with Christianity. I would also never rely on science to guide my life, because what is physically made by humanity is never perfect, without His truth there will always be a flaw in our logic while we're on earth. Listen to Science by S.O.A.D., it really is the best message I've heard from a song in a while. |
| BBQMissile Posts: 267/1198 |
Originally posted by Elara Thanks to Luther, the Church was literally split in half. It was one of the biggest blows to Christendom since thousands upon thousands left the Church to follow in the ways of Luther. The Church was only left with half of the amount of members it usually had. It was actually pretty ironic since Luther's superior sent Luther out into the world to bring about a better Church. Instead, he nearly destroyed it. |
| Darkness Posts: 53/365 |
Originally posted by Kaijin That goes for me too I also dont have time for church but still pray at nights. |
| Elara Posts: 238/9736 |
Wow... for some reason the comment about Luther put me on the defensive. How exactly did he nearly destroy Christendom? If it weren't for him the Protestant Revolution wouldn't have happened when it did.
But yeah, to my main point: Draken, I am actually very stong in my faith, and for the most part Wiccans don't have churches and weekly meetings. There is a Church of Wicca somewhere in the country, but most of us work in Covens or as Solitaries, and the closest thing we have to church is Esbats (Full Moon rites). But yeah, something that I learned long ago, you do not need to go to a building every week to affirm your faith in the religion you follow. If you can't feel connected when you are at home just as well as in a church, then you need to re-evaluate how connected you really are. |
| BBQMissile Posts: 259/1198 |
In fact, that's the exact opposite of what Luther did. Luther, because he believed in something the Catholic Church and the pope did not, almost ended up destroying all of Christiantiy (unintentionally).
"also so that you dont end up lin an eternity of suffering and torment." Draken, that is just ridiculous. Now you're just getting into the whole theory and concept of 'predestination' and the 'divine elect' which leads us to a whole new argument...are we predestined to go to hell or heaven? Or do we have a choice in the matter? " i find that alot of times the smaller churches seem to be closest to god and less corrupt. but may be even some of those are corrupt too. " It's not about the Church. it's not about corruption. It's not about the Pope. It's not about the priest. It's not about anyone but you and God. It's as simple as that. Face it, you can only trust God and yourself, if you are one who believes in a higher power or entity. As long as you truly maintain a strong relationship with your God, then you are fine. "The first shall be last and the last shall be first" Anyway, back to the topic... Here's what I feel about the subject. I truly believe that we, as mankind, are experiencing a new period of "Enlightenment". In case you are a bit lacking in the history of Christendom, the period of Enlightenment occured when people used reason and opinions to try to make sense of religious events, traditions, sacraments, etc. only to find that some of it just doesn't make sense. Copernicus' idea of the earth revolving around the sun was rejected only because the Church felt that if they accepted this, their teachings would become false. Let's face it, religion started a while back so there were traditions and such that people believed in blindly. Why else would the masses rush to Rome to buy indulgences from the Pope? But as time progressed, science and medicine was produced. People found that they could relate more to reason than Church teachings since they made more sense when brought together with daily politics and such. Such figures as Diderot and Voltaire made their 'debut' during the Enlightenment period. Now, in modern day, we (as humans) are constantly thinking for ourselves rather than allowing others to think for us (as done back then). And we begin to question everything since we have so many new discoveries...science, medicine, etc. How does science play a role in religion? What about medicine? Does God truly have the last say in a person's life or can humans control it by medicine and technological advances (such as machines to keep a person alive even after a horrible accident, etc.) Church should not be seen as a forced celebration to praise God. Rather, it should be like a friendly visit to a neighbor or a friend. After all, God is your friend. However, (back to Kaijin's comment about fear) there are many interpretations of fear, it simply depends on how you define the word 'fear'. There are many cases (when talking about God) where fear does not mean to actually be afraid of him. Rather, fear can be described as an "awareness" of the great entity that created us in his image. It's no different from Jesus telling his disciples "You must neglect your father, mother,brother...if you wish to follow me". This does not directly mean that you must ignore your mother and father and relatives and friends. Actually, there's a deeper meaning to this. It means that you must be willing to give up or sacrifice somethings in order to be truly like Christ and to follow in his footsteps. And one more thing. The reason Christendom faced so many problems in the past (Luther, Calvin, Voltaire, etc.) was because the Church as well as the pope (yes, some popes were VERY corrupt back then. Pope Urban VI anyone?) literally forced their ideas on the people. Indulgences, relics, threats...these all led to the eventual protestant groups you see today such as the Methodists, Protestants, Baptists, etc. We, as humans, must learn to accept each other and not to force our ideas upon others. Rather, to embrace them...respect them...and hold our beliefs. Remember, God gave us free will for a reason. Just because a person does not believe in God, doesn't mean he isn't going to heaven. Sorry about the long post. |
| Draken Posts: 9/75 |
I know i may have been ouyt of line but surely you can make time to do some thing with the church. i sometimes dont go on sunday becuse well i over sleep but i make up for it by going to the wedsday service and if your church is corrupt then find a different one. my chuch doesnt make us fear god it helps us to love god and make god more of a father figure than any thing else. it tells us even if we pray for change just once and then ot doesnt happen then we still need to come to church and keep asking. and that even if it may be slow god is chaging your life so like i said if you dont like your church becuse its corrupt and greedy then find one like mine. i find that alot of times the smaller churches seem to be closest to god and less corrupt. but may be even some of those are corrupt too.
and as for saying stuff about jealousy and lazyness it only applies to the ones in genral that act the way they do. im christian but i still respect the ther religions too just like im republican but i still restpect MOST of the democrats too. i just think if your part of something you should do every thing to show you support to it. |
| Xeoman Posts: 305/11757 |
Honestly Draken, that was out of line.
Basically all I got out of that is: - I'm jealous of God. = False - It's my way of being a rebal. = False - If I don't go to church I'm going to hell. = False I don't know who you were directing that to, but I don't recall ever saying I "don't" believe in a higher entity, I do. My way of being a rebel? Uh, no ... I can't just not like going to church at this time in my life? Is that so wrong? As Kaijin already said, and I believe is fully correct, you do not have to go to Church to be "Good" or anything. You can stay home, preach and pray, read the bible yourself, and be just as "good" as anyone else who could go to Church every single Sunday. Church, the way I see it, is basically a place to (or at leat should be ... some aren't, like I said before): - Place to seek help, advise, and assistance. - Meet others with similar passions. - Praise God. (Singing, etc) - Relearn things from the Bible. And Kaijin, at least from what I've been taught and correct, you are right that God is "not" the one you should fear, but be totally opposite with. He never condems you. See all of this? What I'm saying? And I don't even go to Church. That's proof that you can still be faithful ... |
| Kaijin Surohm Posts: 143/1852 |
 ;
You don't NEED to go to church to be saved, Draken. (And what scares me is that I agree with Jin this time too.) If your going to be FORCED into something, then it destroys the whole concept of it. Being forced to go to church every sunday makes it feel more like work, and makes someone less and less likely to hold their religion. Like my HTML for example. I love it when its once and a while, and for fun, but when I get bombarded with requests everywhere, and people complaining over little tweaks, then it's more like Work, and destorys the fun. Same with Religion. If you get dragged out of your bed, when its YOUR time and should be sleeping in, just to go to a church to listen to a guy say how we're all going to burn in hell, then why bother? I gave up going to church because the Pastor screwed up. He taught us to "Fear God" Because all we ever heard was how God was smitting people, like the Great Flood (Noah's arc) then there was Bable Tower. He never taught us to love our Father, he taught us only Fear. I had to teach myself that it is not God whom we fear, but Lucifer. He always made it seem that if you do wrong, God would personally drop kick yourself to hell himself. But if fact, the more you sin, the easier it is for Lucifer to wrap his scaly fingers around you. |
| Gir Posts: 3/11 |
Allright...the Mormon needs to get in and give his say on this subject...
The people that are born as Christians but end up not going to church all have different reasons. Many times they are different for each person. My girlfriend and her family are Christians, but they just don't go to church because they haven't ever found a church that they liked. And I totally agree with Xeogred. I've been to Baptist, Roman Catholic, e.t.c. churches where they're preaching something from the Bible and then all of a sudden start preaching on how this relates to how the government should be...one Baptist preacher even related one story in the Bible to how we should all put a good amount of money in the weird little "collection basket" going around so that he could get a new house. I'd be willing to bet he got less money than usual that time. Now I didn't read every single post from beginning to end, I will admit that, but I did scan most of them. Yes, when born into a Christian family you are usually dragged to church every Sunday and usually have to endure that stuff being force-fed to you. I did I know. But about 6 months ago, I did a TON of research on different things and I decided that were I given the opportunity to leave my church, I wouldn't. Xeogred and others made several comments on how corrupt churches are, and yes, many are...(refer to the story about the Baptist preacher). But let's try not to focus just on the negative here. I very much doubt religion will be the end of the world, because for all it's bad points, it has a good number of good points. Every church is not corrupt, but I find it dissapointing that any are corrupt and claim to be in the service of God when really all they are doing is putting money in their pocket. Thats my opinion. Whether or not anyone even reads what I have to say doesn't matter to me anymore, but I just thought maybe I'd share my opinion. |
| Déesse Posts: 194/958 |
Originally posted by Draken And your unbelievable by putting us down for not believing in something that "we" choose not to believe in. If someone wants to commit themselves to a videogame instead of going to church then it's their own decision. Hey, I would rather go to the beach and hang out with my friends every sunday instead of being cooped up inside a building, but that's my decision and no one else’s, and I’m fine with you wanting to go to church, if it makes you feel better, at least you will go to heaven and have god’s graces. What I do not like is people who bash others for not being with this religion, or not believing or saying your in the wrong religion. It's people like that that turn me off certain things, for crying out loud, we are in the 21st century, half the things mentioned in the bible hardly relate to issues going on in the world, but still people commit themselves to these old ways. I fully respect "anyone" who chooses to believe in something they want to believe in, but leave it at that, don't try and persuade others or tease them etc for not believing in something you want to believe in. I sware, religion will be the down fall for this world. |
| avatar of law Posts: 66/486 |
Originally posted by Jin i whole heartly agree... people shouldn't go to church simply to "be saved." people are always talking about god this and god that, and that man created this and that... well, did you ever realize that man too created religion, which in turn created god? omg, man created god, and not the otherway around, that's shocking! anyways, religion was created a long time ago, and those suffering days are over. we're in the 21st century, we're not ignorant people anymore. im sorry if i offended anyone, but that's the honest truth. it's like how some people believe you can get pregnate by kissing. that's ignorance, and religion was made long ago based on ignorant thinking, and to scare little kids about why they shouldn't be gay because they'll burn in hell, or ever wonder why one of the commandments tell you to obey your father and mother? it's to make you fearful and not question authority. today, you have a choice to not blindy walk towards your death. why is everyone so damn afraid? those dark days are over... SCIENCE... |
| Jin Posts: 57/546 |
And that ladies and gentlemen is why you should never do drugs. |
| Draken Posts: 8/75 |
all right so you just dont like going to church is that it? oyur just too lazy? i mean your willing to commit you self to a video game that lasts several hours but your not willing to commit your self to the one faith you belive in even if it isnt christian i mean you guys are unbelivable. and if you just simply dont belive then whynot what makes you think that a higher being doesnt exist do yo want to be that higher being is that it you jealous? or is it just a way to strike out against the world? if you were actually truly committed you would read your religion's books and believe in them and live by them. and if your a christian and you are wondering why should you go to church its to talk to jesus and ask him for forgivness or even if you havent done any thing wrong just go there and talk to the creater of the earth. also so that you dont end up lin an eternity of suffering and torment. even if this doesnt motivate you to go to church at least think about itif humans are capable of so many things be it war (humans can be capable of so much destruction) or saving the life of your fellow man(the medicines and heroes of to day) and even in fluence people to dress just like them and be just like them(the celbrties and idols of many years) just imagine what the creator can do. |
| Banned Posts: 1025/-3459 |
Originally posted by The XeogredAmen! Preach brother, Preach!Originally posted by Xeoland's God |
| Xeoman Posts: 1799/11757 |
Originally posted by Xeoland's God And you know what the funniest part is? The Church's back in old times became corrupted, and eventually went into politics ... probably corrupting our governments, internationally. And, seriously I hate how when I used to go to Church every Sunday, the pastor would more than likely bring up the "Government" and how it did "This" wrong, and "That" should be like "This". Who gives a crap? Talk about faith, not how the Government SHOULD work.
Maybe that's saying a lot ... but honestly, that's kind of what I've come to see. |
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