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06-17-18 05:53 PM
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Xeogaming Forums - Debate Shrine - Christianaty and how many Christians are deceived to this day | |
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Bitmap

#1 Enhancement Shaman US Ravenholdt








Since: 09-05-04
From: His Laughin' Place

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Posted on 05-15-11 02:03 PM Link | Quote
Three weeks ago, I was saved again by the holy spirit and not only dropped my fraternity, but I have begun to devote more of my time with God and learning the Bible. The entire bible.

There are many things to debate about here. For starters, I have learned a lot of things Christians do today that are not in terms of the bible. And how certain doctrins (Baptist, Catholic, Methodist, etc) are not preaching the entire bible and are only damnding people in the process. If you go to any of these churches.

Before I begin, let me first point to a website that everyone should take a look at.

The Restored Church of God

This website opened my eyes and really corrected a lot of things that I thought was right. Major questions like the Sabbath Day, Easter, Heaven, Hell, etc.

So let's discuss a few topics that I'm sure most of us already know.

Is there life after Death? When I die and I am saved, Will I go to heaven?

Watch in Video form!

Here is a huge one. Many Christians to this day believe that there is life after death and when people die they go to heaven. This is false and there is no passage in the bible that says so. Let's take a look at the bible.

John 3:13: "And no man hath, ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." Enoch and Elijah are not mentioned as exceptions. Jesus plainly said that HE, himself, is the only one who has ascended up to heaven.

Preachers promising a life in heaven clearly don't know what they are talking about. For the Bible also says in John 14:3 "And if I am going away to prepare a place for you, I will come back again and welcome you into my presence, so that you may be where I am." Does this mean he is talking about heaven?

No. But before I go on. Here is another verse you might find interesting!

Psalm 146:3-4 "Put not your trust in the Son of Man, his Breath goes forth, he returns to the earth; in that very day his thoughts perish".

When you die. You perish. You decompose. You have no thoughts and it is as if you were never born. The bible clearly says this and is not confusing whatsoever.

No let's get to the juicy bit here! So does this mean that you don't have an everlasting life after death?

John 5:26 "“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.".

Woah! What is this? Does this mean that the dead will be resurrected? Yes! The bible, My Bible, and your bible clearly explains this! No confusion whatsoever!

But what about going to Heaven? Does this mean that man will go to heaven? Didn't you hear this before? The whole idea of this is foolish and is not in the bible.

Psalm 17:15 "And I--in righteousness I will see your face; when I awake, I will be satisfied with seeing your likeness. (God's Likenes)"

And to put the final nail in the coffin: John 3:13 "No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man." Jesus said this.

Surprised to hear this? You should be! Man has been deceived that you will go into heaven after death! And those that are in the graves, have perished thought, and are not expecting a resurrection from dust.

Another topic. Which church to this day is the True church?

There are many doctrines and organizations to this day that claim that they know the way and the life to salvation. But fail in comparison to what God says about your incredible future.

To start things off. There is one church out there that is doing the right thing. You may know them as the most hated church in the World. Unfortunately, I am talking about the Westburo Baptist Church.

Now, don't ban me just yet! In fact, don't start scoffing and quoting above with a quick remark saying that I am full of crap. Let's examine this a little more closely.

The Westburo Baptist Church is one of the very few churches to this day that are following the whole bible. However, it is being executed poorly. Protesting the funerals isn't exactly a good way to convert people. However, it is being preached out in a way that is Godly and Just. It's just seen through man's eyes as unjust and ungodly. John 13:35 "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

So, any other Churches that are following through the Entire Bible?

Well, The Israelites have got a GOOD idea on preaching to the masses. This is how it was done in the past and the fools who come up were quickly corrected and they had God's word brought forth. The correct true Godly Christian should be doing this. You have to know a man by his Fruits (Matthew 7:16), for a man with bad fruits can not preach (But still do in Sheep's clothing) but a man with Good fruits can prove and correct others in God's way. These Christians are extremely rare sad to say. And are completely blind to the truth when it's staring them right in the face.

To those of you who claim to be Christian's. Wake. Up. Stop going to church. For there is only one True Church (Not the Church of God, not the Baptist Church, not the Methodist, and definately not the evangelist.

1 Corinthians 1:10-13: "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgement. For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?"

So where exactly is the True Church?

"Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body," (1 Cor. 6:19-20).

You. Were bought with a price. You. Have the Church Inside "YOU". The bible clearly says this and the average reader can not be fooled by this. But why do people go to church? Don't honor God at a church! Honor it with your body!

For starters, I am not condoning going to a church. I am condoning the doctrine for it's clear that it's only damning people. Fellowship and worship is actually a good thing and a great place to go to do so. But an informed Christian also knows that one day of the week isn't the only day to do so. It's everyday that Christians should be doing this. Your bible tells you this.

There are many other topics and questions I am sure will be raised up in this thread. If you want to learn more. The website above has a LOT of books you can read online for FREE. Yes, Free. For your own personal enjoyment and research.

Now, granted, I have reciently been saved and I am but a fool on many other subjects that a lot of Christians know today. But thankfully I have been doing research and at the crawling phase of my walk.

So. Let's debate. Do you think Christians are deceived to this day? The proof is here in this post. And if you have a bible handy be sure to read along!
Elara

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Since: 08-15-04
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Posted on 05-16-11 05:20 PM Link | Quote
Just out of curiosity, which version of the Bible are you basing your research on? Most of it sounds like the New World Translation (aka, the Jehova's Witness version). I am just gonna state on the WBC thing that I think saying they "execute poorly" is a major understatement.

I am curious... what have you learned about Easter and other such holidays? What about the history of the early Christians, before the rise of Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy?
Bitmap

#1 Enhancement Shaman US Ravenholdt








Since: 09-05-04
From: His Laughin' Place

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Posted on 05-17-11 06:37 AM Link | Quote
When quoting verses, I use as many versions as I can find and recap on just about all of them. But normally I use NKJ version as my normal one and NIV as a backup.

As far as Easter and the early orthodix of Christians. I can't really comment too much about them. Still learning.
Cteno

Super Shotgun
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Posted on 05-17-11 11:07 AM Link | Quote
Christmas was originally a pagan holiday. So are a multitude of others. I've heard from multiple sources that Christ wasn't even born in December and that he actually died sometime in Summer, so that's some reason why, though I've never been bothered to look up official sources.

I like the research that you've done though, Bitmap. It shows that you're not some mindless church-dwelling drone that believes everything that a clueless preacher tells them!
Bitmap

#1 Enhancement Shaman US Ravenholdt








Since: 09-05-04
From: His Laughin' Place

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Posted on 05-17-11 03:18 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Nelrith
Christmas was originally a pagan holiday. So are a multitude of others. I've heard from multiple sources that Christ wasn't even born in December and that he actually died sometime in Summer, so that's some reason why, though I've never been bothered to look up official sources.




I can tell you right now it is nowhere in the bible on celebrating Easter, Christmas, or Good Friday as official celebratory holidays in the Christian practice.



Does the Bible teach that there are specific days God made holy? If so, what are they—and are they still in effect? And did God only intend them for ancient Israel? Did Jesus do away with these days and exchange them for Christmas, Easter, New Year’s and other days of pagan origin? Which days should you keep? Does it matter? Prepare to be shocked by what the Bible really teaches!

I just got done reading this book and following along with two versions of the Bible. NKJ and NIV versions and they are both accurate with this booklet.

God's Holy days or Pagan Holidays? By David C. Pack

There is one holiday that 99% of Christians are not doing (Sadly, myself encluded) Is fasting. Which is a week-long "God Commanding" holiday that every being on earth needs to do. No food, no water for one full week. Not only that, but using this week to put your full trust in God. Prayer, toung speaking, you name it. But no food whatsoever!

Fasting is basically a way to bring you closer to God. You want to talk to him? Better start fasting.

When I was saved again. I did not eat or drink for five full days. And I used those days to practice this and I can say that without God I would not have made those 5 days. I even lost weight too.


I like the research that you've done though, Bitmap. It shows that you're not some mindless church-dwelling drone that believes everything that a clueless preacher tells them!


I am no longer of this world. I'm no longer an earth dweller. I have a good feeling God will put me to full use.

E- Oh, and I'm glad too. In the past I was deceived by an old pastor. Right now I get my teachings from three people, two of them are True's grandparents. And I have been going to bible study over at their house the past three weeks. And the third person being David C. Pack. Who really opened my eyes and his videos are all information for all faces of religion. Very good man

Oh, and I fear God. Believe me I do.


(Last edited by Bitmap on 05-17-11 03:28 PM)
Elara

Divine Mamkute
Dark Elf Goddess
Chaos Imp
Penguins Fan

Ms. Invisable








Since: 08-15-04
From: Ferelden

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Posted on 05-17-11 09:18 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Bitmap


There is one holiday that 99% of Christians are not doing (Sadly, myself encluded) Is fasting. Which is a week-long "God Commanding" holiday that every being on earth needs to do. No food, no water for one full week. Not only that, but using this week to put your full trust in God. Prayer, toung speaking, you name it. But no food whatsoever!




Muslims do that, I believe it is called Ramadan. It is interesting to note that Muslims actually follow the stuff in the Bible more closely than the majority of Christians.
Xeoman

Wallmaster
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Since: 08-14-04
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Posted on 05-18-11 11:12 AM Link | Quote
I'll be fairly blunt with some of this and my beliefs.

You fear God, why? I don't.

Condemnation is why Church is a terrible place. "Most" Churches are too fake, untrustworthy, people put on masks, when in reality each and everyone of those people have their own problems that many of them can't accept or acknowledge and can often times be worse than "unsaved" ones. Church isn't safe for me nor is it interesting in the least bit, every single one I went to growing up as a child it seemed like all the pastors could do was preach about how wrong the world is and teach me nothing about the Bible while telling you to do this and that or you've failed.

Find faith within yourself. God wants you to be 100% you, not 100% Jesus. God loved Jesus because he was 100% Jesus. He loves you and wants you to be 100% you.

My dad defines Church as a body of friends he can get together with, trust and talk about anything with. He puts it in much better words though. Too bad I grew up when he was a religious zealot, but I can tell he regrets it quite a lot and has made that pretty clear to me. Nowadays he's a lot more relaxed and his ideals are far more interesting than most things I've ever heard.

You guys might remember last year when I went through that Breakthrough group therapy thing. I wish I could remember everything we learned faith wise, as it was all incredibly interesting and real. The "100% thing" above is one of those tidbits I pulled from there that was pretty awesome and connected with me personally. That and the large fact that God does not control everything, not at all. People who pray to him or say he told them to do this or that are often looking for excuses.

I have some faith and believe in God and some other things, but I'm not that religious and it doesn't bother me a bit. I hate Church and it doesn't bother me at all to say that. Most people that have gone through Breakthrough come to that conclusion as well, not to sound like a cult or anything, but it is pretty funny. You realize who's "real" and who's not.

"Christian" seems like a lame excuse for a label to me, both for people who often claim to be one or for those who think they're above them. I'm not gonna bother fitting myself into any group.

Sorry if that came off as preachy or rude. Those are some of my beliefs thesedays perhaps.


(Last edited by Goku on 05-18-11 11:19 AM)
Cteno

Super Shotgun
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Posted on 05-18-11 01:07 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Goku
Sorry if that came off as preachy or rude. Those are some of my beliefs thesedays perhaps.

It's hardly preachy or rude. Preachy and rude would be if somebody was saying that everything you believe is wrong and that you're bad for thinking the way you do while relentlessly harassing you about it.

Everybody is entitled to believe what they want to, piss on anybody else who thinks otherwise... Unless they believe that nobody is entitled to believe what they want to, in which case I'm a giant flying hypocrite.
Bitmap

#1 Enhancement Shaman US Ravenholdt








Since: 09-05-04
From: His Laughin' Place

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Posted on 05-19-11 04:19 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Goku


You fear God, why? I don't.


Because this is the same God that really has the say-so in our incredible future.

Sure, God wants you to be you, but he also wants you to obey his commandments and by doing so it's guaranteed that you will live a happy and successful life. Living a life of sin however, which we are all born into, comes as a price. We live, we play around with sin, and then we die. However, turning away from sin and allowing God into your life has had it's fair share of ups and downs. No one said it was going to be easy when God comes into your life. It's the kinda love that parents do when they disapline their children. It's a learning process.

I mean, what does the Bible say about God loving you? That; I am not sure of. I really don't want to point out that "The Bible teaches this" and not have the proof of this. But I do know that man-made things that make you "You" isn't the ideal thing God looks forward to in you. God wants to see you move with him in your life. Not forced at all.

“The way of peace they know not; and there is no judgment in their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whosoever goes therein shall not know peace” (Isa. 59:8)

Man-made therapy to me is contradicting to me when I read the verse above. This is where a lot of churches make the mistake on how they tell you how to live life. But what they should do is actually read from the Bible and say what God says about how to live your life.

God said that He made human beings in His “image” and “likeness.” This verse means what it says. God created you to become “like” Him in every way. Through His Spirit entering the mind of each of His newly converted children, a new spirit life is begotten. A tiny, spirit-begotten fetus comes into existence. Just as little children grow up to look like their physical parents, God’s children slowly take on the spiritual likeness of God (their Parent), in nature and character, as much as in image and form (II Pet. 1:4). Both the Old and New Testaments make this point absolutely plain!

“But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ” (II Pet. 3:18). Christians are to grow in this lifetime. In order to be given divine authority and power, as joint-heirs with Christ, Christians must qualify, through the building of God’s holy, righteous character in their lives.

Jesus said, “I will build My church” (Matt. 16:18). It is the Church—that Church—that is “Jerusalem above,” which is “the mother of us all” (Gal. 4:26; Heb. 12:22-23; Rev. 12:1; II John 1, 5). Like any mother, the Church nurtures and feeds her children—and she has been doing this for 2,000 years.

Long post again.
Yasu

Posting Pig








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Posted on 05-19-11 01:52 PM Link | Quote
Form what I have read in your post you haven't done in research into the church of Jesus christ of latter day saints. I must say that a lot of the questions I had where answered when I read the book of Mormon.
Cteno

Super Shotgun
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Posted on 05-19-11 02:02 PM Link | Quote
Such as the whole boxers vs briefs debate. I've noticed that Mormons prefer boxers!

/topicderail
Rogue
If you're reading this... You are the Resistance











Since: 08-17-04

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Posted on 05-19-11 02:12 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Nelrith
Such as the whole boxers vs briefs debate. I've noticed that Mormons prefer boxers!

I call shenanigans. They wear magic underpants.

Seriously.


(Last edited by Rogue on 05-19-11 02:35 PM)
Bitmap

#1 Enhancement Shaman US Ravenholdt








Since: 09-05-04
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Posted on 05-19-11 03:02 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Yasu
Form what I have read in your post you haven't done in research into the church of Jesus christ of latter day saints. I must say that a lot of the questions I had where answered when I read the book of Mormon.


Such as?
Yasu

Posting Pig








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Posted on 05-19-11 10:42 PM Link | Quote
Well I know that in your first post you made a comment about the fact that the bible dosnt state what will happen to you after death. I just know that after I had read the Book of Mormon, D&C, and The Peal of Great Price. That alot of the questions just like the ones you listed. For one I believe(and yes you can find versece in the the scriptures I listed) that me and my family will be together forever in heaven with god. If you want to know more pm me.
Bitmap

#1 Enhancement Shaman US Ravenholdt








Since: 09-05-04
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Posted on 05-20-11 04:07 AM Link | Quote
Where does it say that in the Bible?
Yasu

Posting Pig








Since: 10-12-06

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Posted on 05-20-11 01:33 PM Link | Quote
Did I once say the bible? No, I said the scriptures I listed. I do believe in the bible. But I also believe there are other scriptures out there like the Book of Mormon, D&C and The Pearl of Great Price. Youbcan find all 3 of them for free on www.lds.org, or if you have an IPhone or iPad you can download the app Gospel Library. I would ask that you just try and read at least the Book of Mormon and if you have more questions I would be glad to answer them. And to let you know where in the Book of Mormon that it says that families can be together for ever is

"And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that covenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God." D&C 132: 18

You might make clams that because it isnotin the bible it is a false scripture. But I would just ask that you read it for your self and see.
Kyoku kun

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Since: 06-19-06
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Posted on 05-20-11 07:52 PM Link | Quote
I know absolutely nothing about the bible, therefore I can't testify what is right or wrong, but can only ask a simple question. What, in your opinion, does the bible (Book of Mormon...etc) classify as SIN? What is considered sinning in your opinion?
Bitmap

#1 Enhancement Shaman US Ravenholdt








Since: 09-05-04
From: His Laughin' Place

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Posted on 05-20-11 10:54 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Yasu
Did I once say the bible? No, I said the scriptures I listed. I do believe in the bible. But I also believe there are other scriptures out there like the Book of Mormon, D&C and The Pearl of Great Price.


One problem with this. Mormons and Christians are two completely different doctrins as there are with baptists and methodists.

So when you come in here saying "Well it says that in MY book" in a thread talking about Christianaty then you are automatically saying that it is in there.


I know absolutely nothing about the bible, therefore I can't testify what is right or wrong, but can only ask a simple question. What, in your opinion, does the bible (Book of Mormon...etc) classify as SIN? What is considered sinning in your opinion?


There are many sins the Bible lists. I can't list them all for the sake of an amazingly large post but I can say that any sin is equal in God's eyes. Lust, Gluttony, Greed, there are a ton of them.
Rogue
If you're reading this... You are the Resistance











Since: 08-17-04

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Posted on 05-21-11 12:43 AM Link | Quote
A little clarification.

Mormons ARE Christian.

Christianity is the main religion with Mormonism being a sect. Catholicism, Baptists, Methodism, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Calvinism, Jehovah's Witnesses, and so on are all Christian sects. They all believe in Christ.

They simply differ on a few details. In terms of Mormonism, they have an extra book and believe Christ came to America (if I'm way off, I'm sorry, Latter Days Saints).
Yasu

Posting Pig








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Posted on 05-21-11 02:51 PM Link | Quote
No Rouge you had it right. Mormons are Christians. We do believe that Christ after we was resurrected came over to the Americas to preach his word over here. we also believe that there are latter day prophets.
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