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09-22-18 07:33 AM
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Xeogaming Forums - Debate Shrine - so hows Obama been doing?
  
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Posts: 10/21
in one word: ihavenotasingleregret
Elara
Posts: 5883/9624
No, they didn't want to give money to people who do not have and cannot get jobs because the economy is in the toilet and no one is hiring. You know, all those people that have been getting laid off because they decided to deregulate Wall Street and the Loan Market? To get unemployment in the first place you have to show proof that you have been looking for a job. You want a better example? Ok. The other day Congress met to decide whether or not to provide states with emergency funding to keep their economies from collapsing. Governors from both parties pretty much begged for the money, as it was the only thing that was going to keep them afloat. Republican governors representing thousands of voters begged for this funding. Nearly all the Republican Congressmen voted no. They are out of touch with their base, even several Republicans admit it.

And Bush started the two wars, after the tax cuts... you don't have tax cuts in a war, it is economically unsound.

And yes, I would assume that the Republican higher class knows about popular issues, just like the Democrats would. Since the higher class are the ones running the show. But Republicans in the middle and lower class usually have no fucking clue what is going on and when they think they do they are often misinformed because they get their news from Fox News, who have been caught lying several times to further their own agendas. Often members of the higher class get the same misinformation. And I am not talking about bias, I am talking about flat out lies and slander. Look at what just happened with the worker from the Department of Agriculture and that bogus story they broadcast that got her fired.

Oh... and for the record, I don't say all this because I am a democrat (because I am not), I say it because it is the truth.



Squire Vince
Posts: 415/1586
Wait you mean that republicans didn't want to give money to people who aren't and won't be looking for jobs? That's because they're conservative. They don't think that hand outs are a way to make a living, I understand that some people definately need help but there are bound to be people who will abuse it. And to say that republicans are fucking with us because this is a game is an asinine thought. If you could put yourself in their shoes you would understand. But you can't so you're afraid. Did you know that republican higher class individuals understand and are more aware of popular issues? That's a fact. As for tax cuts how else does anyone hope to get elected? If you say that I will make better jobs but I'm going to tax you out the ass you won't get elected. We're a stupid nation we take what's put before us. If the president says no more taxes ever well then hoorah, it's just a way to get elected. Not to mention he had to fight two wars, not the easiest thing to do.
Elara
Posts: 5870/9624
Actually, the majority of the population would be democrats if you look at the House. I am not saying that they deny everything because they don't want change, they deny everything because they are playing a fucking game with out lives. The extension of unemployment benefits that nearly everyone on the street wanted, regardless of political affiliation (because they are all unemployed), the republicans tried to stall.

Or the Bush tax cuts, which when passed were admitted to be mostly for the rich. They want to keep those and cut social services further to balance the budget. Hi, logic here, if you are in debt and need to get out of it, you don't cut taxes.
Rogue
Posts: 6051/11693
As a moderate (I voted for Bush over Kerry and I don't regret that, and my candidate of choice in the last presidential campaign was actually Ron Paul. I support gay rights and the right to choose, and at the same time I feel Arizona's SB1070 is a state's attempt to be pro-active in handling illegal aliens, which the federal government has failed at), I am not disappointed with Obama's work thus far.

He's doing his best and taken many stands on issues which I agree with.

This site keeps track of his promises so far: Politifact's Obameter

He comes under a lot of scrutiny because everyone was expecting quick fixes and answers right away. As you can see, many of the things he's trying to push forward have been stalled.
Squire Vince
Posts: 363/1586
Democrats are the majority in the house, and I can't say that I'm totally against rebulican views yes they needed to open their eyes to a changing world but, look at what they lived with and how they made it work. Obama hasn't proposed any "New Deal" for the economy and he most likely won't. It's not his fault it's time. And the country would fall into chaos if we just took all our troops back and universal healthcare. Saying that republicans just deny everything new is not a well developed thought, they are trying to look out for the way the country was when they were put into office. Also they represent the majority of the voting population.
Elara
Posts: 5865/9624
Have you not been paying attention? They try to stall or knock down all of it just because a democrat proposed it. It doesn't matter what the bill is, the republicans try to filibuster everything. It has become 100% partisan in there, and that is not what we need right now.
Squire Vince
Posts: 346/1586
Well it's not always that they don't like his bills but that they could be open to too much interpretation. The senators and the represenitives also have to make sure that the bill can't be exploited.
Kard Ayals
Posts: 2529/2888
From what I can see, he's doing the best he can.

Seriously. Not really his fault if everone is always trying to block his bills.
Ϡ
Posts: 3621/3807
Originally posted by Elara


As for Obama, yes I am a bit disappointed in how things are going. However, unlike 50% of the population, I understand that it is largely not his fault. One man cannot make the country do a 180 in two years. The economy is recovering, what more do they want? Iraq is winding down, and the healthcare bill passed. Obama is filling his campaign promises, he just can't do it all at once and people a pissed because reality doesn't work the way they want it to. Honestly, I am more pissed at Congress for all the bickering, childishness, and dishonorable behavior that they have been displaying since Obama took office. You want to point fingers at someone for how slowly things are moving, point them at the Senate, not the President.



Agreed. Love him or hate him, the man is trying his hardest to get things done and to preserve what dignity he can. He's not perfect, but the negative press surrounding him is unfair, considering what he's accomplished so far (which is only a year and a half or so). That being said, the healthcare bill is flawed, he's wimping out on climate affairs, and his lifting the ban on offshore drilling can be seen as the act that enabled the oil spill (though let's not forget it actually is BP's fault.)
Elara
Posts: 5850/9624
Paycuts will happen before layoffs. I am sorry, but 70k a year is a lot of money and they can live with less. My dad supported a family of four on 40k, and cutting 30k/person/year would easily prevent most of the layoffs if not all of them. Besides, BC is the company gouging me for health insurance that barely covers anything and charging me extra on top of that for a pre-existing condition. BS refused to cover me outright for that condition. You know what it is? Being overweight. So yeah, seeing as they are part of the problem, I have very little sympathy.

As for Obama, yes I am a bit disappointed in how things are going. However, unlike 50% of the population, I understand that it is largely not his fault. One man cannot make the country do a 180 in two years. The economy is recovering, what more do they want? Iraq is winding down, and the healthcare bill passed. Obama is filling his campaign promises, he just can't do it all at once and people a pissed because reality doesn't work the way they want it to. Honestly, I am more pissed at Congress for all the bickering, childishness, and dishonorable behavior that they have been displaying since Obama took office. You want to point fingers at someone for how slowly things are moving, point them at the Senate, not the President.
Squire Vince
Posts: 318/1586
I care about recieveing the benefits that I work for. Getting a job isn't hard, it takes time but it isn't hard if you try. And if Obama were to compensate those losing their benefits everything would be fine.
Phoenixocracy
Posts: 1087/2742
So what you are saying is that you would rather just have teachers be covered by health insurance than the population? That is exactly what's wrong with people in this country. They are greedy and only care about themselves.
Squire Vince
Posts: 314/1586
Yeah i agree with Vulkar's point. I had a one on one with one of my favorite teachers about this. Teachers usually get a solid health care plan. Now with the plan in motion for universal healthcare, teachers (which I plan to be) will lose that coverage and not be compensated for it. I'm a very conservative liberal (oxy-moron i know). I liked the fifties can we go back then?
Phoenixocracy
Posts: 1085/2742
I see what you mean, Vulkar, but I'm sure that there's something he has in mind. If the master of energy can figure it out, I'm sure the government officials have at least some idea of what it will do. While the unemployment rate may go up from this, he's trying to cut it down by providing more job opportunities. He's really only leaving the unemployment rate where it is, if not gradually decreasing it.

And while I support NASA, I feel that he should put more effort towards things that will benefit society. While research is important, what's the point if the economy falls apart?
Lord Vulkas Mormonus
Posts: 3643/4539
I'm pretty sure that I've agreed with only one of Obama's choices, and that was his privatizing the space program. Given that NASA hasn't gotten proper unding for years, I think that was probably our best chance for future space flight.

Healthcare: I may be a bit biased, as my dad is working for Blue Cross Blue Shield, but I will say that in order to still survive as a company, their North Carolina company alone has to cut $200,000,000 in the next two years. Given that they'd already made pretty significant cuts, this means that they're going to have to make massive layoffs.

In order to look at it in a more detailed way, let's assume that the average income for a BCBS employee is about $70,000. 200,000,000/70,000 = 2,857.14286 employees laid off.

Now, let's just asume that they make a lot of budget cuts beyond employees, cancelling bonuses, etc. I'm going to assume that 1/3 of this is just budget cutting, which I believe to be a very generous estimate. 2,857.14286 * .66 = 1,902.85714 employees laid off.

Now, let's pretend that all of Blue Cross Blue Shield's companies have to make the same cuts. Blue Cross is a federation of 39 different health organizations accross the United States. So, 39 * 1,902.85714 = 74,211.4285 employees laid off.

That's over 74,000 people out of the job with just this healthcare bill. In June, we had a 9.5% unemployment rate in America, with 45% of these people having been without a job for 27 weeks or longer. Do we really need another seventy four thousand people without a job?

I'll get to some of his other stuff, especially General McCrystal later.
Nephitaem
Posts: 35/35
i actualy really like Obama so far. his healthcare bill will really help, and his ideas for space are a lot better than our last president. hes taking a while, but I think hi ideas will make it all work in the long run.
Xeios
Posts: 2812/2954
Or taking everything at once will lead to him solving everything at once, right before running for re-election. You never know how politician's minds work.
Phoenixocracy
Posts: 1068/2742
I concur with everything said thus far. The population cannot expect to have all of the changes he promised in such a short span of time. It's a shame that everyone is against him, because I feel that he can do a great job with the country. He just needs one more term.

But Obama is at fault, as well. While he is trying to do amazing things and help our country, he needs to prioritize first. Tackling everything at once will get him nowhere.
geeogree
Posts: 240/246
I kinda feel the same way....

they were praising the guy like he was the savior of the world before he had even gotten into office... and now that he's in office I think he's gotten himself in over his head. He is tackling too many issues and has too many problems getting in his way. It's unfortunate that someone people seemed to rally around so early on has been such a disappointment.
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Xeogaming Forums - Debate Shrine - so hows Obama been doing?



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